Convenience

biancakyburz

Little known fact, Hsipaw's hot springs are conveniently located next to the local motorcycle wash.

Much is to be said about what will happen once the Corona crisis abates. The same also applies to the world of wellness & travel.

Starting off with Global wellness trends for 2021. A bit late, but nonetheless as much of the world is still locked up, pretty much a prediction for what the hordes (read ourselves) will do / go when cut loose.

Little newsworthy trends, basically same same as always just described differently. If anything it will be still very much elitist. 

No. 9 on the list with some relevance:

'The coronavirus pandemic acted as a near complete brake on travel in 2020 and consumers and suppliers looked to rebooting travel for the better. The next trend? Look for all travel to become wellness travel as manic getaways are replaced by slower, closer and more mindful experiences. The over tourism epidemic will be challenged, tentative travel will become a new buzzword, and people will strive to leave a place better off than they found it'.

As said, when we are all set loose again, slow travel will not survive. The pressure we exert on each other for new experiences, for greener pastures will trump the slower travelling and experiencing trends. The time we missed, the eventuality that something so weird may well happen again will mean that we have lesser time to see (and experience) whatever landmark still on one's bucket list.

I suspect home wellness will become more and more important. Why rely on seeking commercial facilities located further away when you have virtually the same experience at home? And you determine your own times and rules!

The Sydney Morning Herald (Jan. 5) has its own list of wellness trends:

'With the coronavirus pandemic shaping our entire world in 2020, it's no surprise that we'll see its influence extend into 2021 lifestyle and wellness trends.

- Comfort crafting

In terms of mental wellness and self-care, Dayna Isom Johnson, Etsy's trend expert, says "little luxuries" and "wellness-focused rituals" are going to be popular. This includes things as simple as reinvigorated fitness routines and long baths. Another trend that Johnson predicts will "really stick out" is comfort crafting.

"It's really a time to craft, to learn a new skill and it can certainly serve as a form of self-care and grounding," she said.

...

- Friluftsliv, which translates to English as "free air life," is an appreciation of being outdoors and incorporating outdoor activities into your life.

...

- Trampolines

...

- Slow travel'.

No news. 

A more regional look. 

The current (Covid-19 induced) crisis is one in which national tourism agencies seem to be trying to reinvent themselves. 

Here, Couchfish (Feb. 26) discusses how Thailand hopes to move ahead, basically by focussing on the high end of clientèle:

'At least within a Southeast Asian context, much of the focus is on “high value” tourism rather than backpackers. By high value, what tourism boards really mean is “high–spending”. This is a mistake—budget travellers are the biggest spenders of all.

...

I’m not arguing that high end tourism should be consigned to the scrap heap—tourism comes in many flavours, and each has pros and cons. Backpackers though punch above their weight and it is folly by tourism boards to (at best) ignore them or (at worst) tell them to stay away'.

It doesn't seem that the local Southeastern Asian governments are grasping reality. 

faisarj1 near Banda Aceh:

Terakhir ke sini tahun 2009. Not bad!

Soothing
Talking about reality, TravelandLeisure (Dec. 12) presents 

'The worlds most instagrammable hot springs'. 

Europe gathers most hashtags (f.i. Blue Lagoon), closerby NZ gets 2 mentions, Oz 1 and Japan 2. None in Southeast Asia. 

It actually refers to an article put together by Parkdean Resorts which has a more extensive top 25 (again nothing from SeA!) and describes the methodology which compiled data on November 2020. 

No doubt the method has its limitations, as it not really incorporating other languages / scripts. But probably the less biased, though it would have been great to compare to a year before. 

Several mentions should have been non-starters: 

- Mammoth hot springs (US) refers to an area with a fair number of hot springs, 

- Aquadome and Termebucuresti are not really natural, 

- Cascate del Mulino made it to 20, but the same place but referred to as Termi di Saturnia made it to no. 6,

- Jigokudani, gets the numbers of Jigokudani monkey park whereas 

- Sawtooth National Forest actually may have a hot spring but the expansive name includes many, many non-soakers.

So a good effort but needs improvements ...

The NZHerald (Jan. 7) has a national list of (only!) 5 geothermal hotspots.

JapanToday (Dec. 23) has a ranking of Japans most popular hot springs:

'Travel company Jalan surveyed 13,342 users and asked them about their favorite onsen areas, the ones they liked so much that they want to go back, and they all seem to offer much more than just soothing hot waters and Japanese ryokan inns.

...

For the 15th year in a row in Jalan’s annual survey, Hakone, just an hour and a half outside of Tokyo by express train, was voted to be the best onsen resort area in the country. There are a lot of reasons why Hakone is a popular tourist destination, not least among them the startlingly beautiful proximity to Mt Fuji. And with plenty of things to do there–ferry boat rides, a cable car over a volcanic mountain, a scenic railway, shrines temples, and museums, just to name a few, there’re lots of reasons to love Hakone enough to keep coming back over and over again.

That Hakone made the top spot once again isn’t entirely surprising, though it is interesting that the top 10 remains largely unchanged since last year, except for Kurokawa Onsen, which jumped up two spots. Perhaps that’s because travel was limited due to the coronavirus, or perhaps that’s because these places are just too good to pass up. Either way, if you’re looking for an authentic, fun, and memorable onsen resort experience, look no further than one of these top places'.

Locally, 8 best hot springs near Manila (by viatravelers (Dec. 19)), though the definition of 'near' may need some explanation.

Traverse-blog (Mar. 1) on how to experience your first time at a Japanese onsen. Nothing surprising though.

Desperate times? The Mainichi reports (Oct. 30) on the slowing business of onsen hosting:

'NISHIWAGA, Iwate -- The local government of this northeastern Japan town, known for its hot spring resorts, put seven of its 10 municipal spa facilities on sale following falls in visitor numbers, but as of Oct. 29 -- the day before the deadline to register interest -- it had yet to receive a single application.

...

Conditions also apply: for at least five years the buyer must operate the hot spring facility and cannot resell the property in the period.

Nishiwaga's local government started to build municipal hot spring facilities in the mountain town from the 1980s, and it has aimed to develop the town as a spa resort location. But the town has been hit by serious depopulation in recent years, and the number of visitors has continued to decrease'.

NZHerald again (Jan. 25), hopes yet another article on the (n)on-goings at Waiwera Thermal Resort (not so long ago one of NZ's bigger waterparks):

'The iconic Waiwera hot pool complex closed its doors for a $3 million renovation in February 2018 and has never reopened.

Instead, the past two years has seen court battles over rent and trademarks, liquidations, cancelled leases, and a realisation that the damage to the infrastructure of the 50-year-old water park (and its more recent bottling plant) is so bad almost nothing is salvageable.

...

But there's a potentially happy ending to the tale: the present owners in September 2020 made preliminary decisions on a $250m masterplan.

....

They say the whole project could take as long as 10 years'.

Blessed

alx_alex_forever

Friday. Pool day 🐟🐟

Ready for water game 🐰🐰

#alxforever #holiday #holidays #2020 #travelblogger #travelphotography #asia #laos

A new Laotian soaking opportunity (photo above)? A new swish resort in Xieng Khouang. There's not much to find, it's managed /owned by Asa Power company and only has a Facebook page. There's also very few reviews as of now.

FindingHotsprings notes (Jan. 16) Wareerak (Krabi) as its best soaking spot in Siam:

'... you’ll be able to soak in five hot spring fed pools found on the property, of varying temperatures. To determine the healing properties of their springs, Wareerak had the waters tested by the Institute Fresenius in Germany in 2017, and it was found that the waters met the German standard for “Natural Medicinal Water”. Additionally, the waters do not contain any strong sulphur smell. With a PH of 7, the waters are very good for the skin and may be used for drinking as well. A signature of the property is its hot springs waterfall, a true natural wonder'.

A complete guide (Feb. 14) to Sai Ngam hot spring, Pai (Mae Hong Son province - Thailand) by Jonny Melon. Though excessive, by no means complete. And why whine about national park entrance fee?

where_is_jon

This was such a happy day for me. It was one of the last days of swimming for me in Thailand because I was getting my feet tattooed the next day. By the time they healed, I would have left the country. So we decided to drive about an hour or so past all of these small villages and into the heart of the mountains. Protruding from the ground was this huge bubbly rock that was spewing boiling hot water from the Earth. The local people built a system to let some of it travel through to two pools for soaking, while the rest just merged with a nearby cold river. It was surrounded by mountains and beautiful nature. We spent hours here, soaking up every last minute. I truly remember being so happy about this decision. Sometimes you have to go out of the way to see some new things that speak to your heart. Was blessed to swim at these hot springs.

The same Jonny also has a recent (Jan. 16) posting on Ardent (Camiguin, Philippines):

'As I mentioned earlier, these hot springs sit at the foot of Mt. Hibok Hibok volcano which is where the thermal water is derived from. The water temperature is around 40°C that is slightly cooled on the way down to the lower pools.

Ardent Hot Springs are man-made pools surrounded by lush rainforest and the water is transparent with a tinge of blue. For a man-made structure, they’ve done well to make this place a tranquil experience for visitors.

The water cascades from the top of the valley and divided into four separate pools. The two larger pools at the bottom are the most inviting and there is an arched footbridge between them'.

GettingStamped (Feb. 20) introduces everything you need to know concerning Maquinit hot spring.

'Looking for the perfect place to end a fun-filled day in Coron? Consider a visit to the tranquil Maquinit Hot Springs. As the only saltwater spring in the Philippines, Maquinit Hot Springs is fueled by an active, underwater volcano.

However, you don’t have to worry about any dangerous eruption. The hot springs are entirely safe. Not to mention, soaking your aching muscles in the warm waters is the perfect way to unwind after a long day of island hopping and outdoor adventure'.

NikkeiAsia (Jan. 9) on a slice of Japan in north Vietnam:

'Yoko Onsen resort lies nestled deep in lush mountain forests in Vietnam's Quang Ninh Province. It has all the trappings a traditional upscale Japanese resort needs, from luxurious ryokan-style buildings to baths bubbling with mineral-rich hot-spring water.

Since it opened in June, the new leisure complex has become a hot topic among trend-conscious Vietnamese. It may help spread the Japanese onsen culture of bathing nude for relaxation and wellness in the country, where the closest thing to an onsen is a hot-spring pool to take a dip in while wearing a bathing suit.

Yoko Onsen, the first Japanese-style hot spring resort in Vietnam, is a three-hour drive from Hanoi, the capital. It is located off the beaten track and in a beautiful tranquil setting overlooking forests and hills in the karst landscape stretching from Ha Long Bay, a UNESCO World Heritage site.

...

All baths are outdoors. The complex is divided into three zones: separate areas for men and women, and one for both men and women to bathe together in swimsuits.

Besides 25 bathtubs, the complex also has bedrock bathing facilities and saunas. The water is rich in sodium and chloride ions, and the temperature of the spring's source is 42 degrees Celsius. The spring water is diluted with no other water.

Unlike Japanese, Vietnamese do not bathe or soak with strangers completely naked. When this reporter visited Yoko Onsen, young guests were making a lot of noise in the mixed bathing area. A manager at the resort said it will try to help Vietnamese learn how to enjoy onsens in the Japanese style'.

thylaan at Yoko onsen:

Sun in my eyes, navy blue skies

These are the reasons I can survive ☺️

#sunset #13degrees

Not often, but a scientific article (pdf, Oct. 9, 2020) on one of the regions hot springs, which for a change does not look at geothermal potential (read how to make money easily), but looks at how the environs of Annah Rais hot spring (Sarawak, Malaysia) can be monetized. !!!

'The Hot Springs has potential to become a tourism destination that can contribute to Malaysian Economy'.

And non-Malaysians were prepared nearly three times as much as locals, suggesting the need for more local education. ?

Preservation

wanderlust.alf

People call it rain vulcan because there's splashing hot spring like a rain, and also they do natural sauna with the sulfur smokes over there.. 🌳 #volcano #vulcan #smokes #mountain #nature #hotspring #naturalhotspring #westjava #indonesia #kamojang #explore #wanderlust #wanderer #traveler #travel #dontpanicgopicnic #picnic #adventure

There's very little to report on, while establishing the most probable most popular hot spring sites in Southeast Asia. I say with intent sites, as most mentioned below are veritable fun parks with hot water and/or soaking possibilities being a side kick to the main reason why visitors come: to be fleeced.

I'm gonna need a better way to establish soaking popularity. 
Problem is, the less known the hot spring is, the higher the probability for a gracious soak. But less known means less internet impact.
Hmmm.

Anyway the past years top hot springs based on internet impact:

1. Poring (2016: 1), Malaysia;
2. Maquinit (2), Philippines;
3. Banjar (3), Indonesia;
4. Sariater (6), Indonesia;
5. Toya Devasya (-) Indonesia;
6. Banjaran (7), Malaysia;
7. Thap Ba (10), Vietnam;
8. Ciater (-), Indonesia;
9. Laguna (-), Philippines;
10. Rinjani (-), Indonesia / Ardent (4), Philippines.

Looking for alternatives  I thought I use the ten springs above, select 60 most recent instagram photo's of each and counted how much were of people in water. Let's see the result:

1. Banjar, 2 Toya Devasya and 3 Thap Ba. 

Last of the ten? Poring ....

But if I would add put say Sai Ngam (Thailand) in the mix, then this hot spring would be no. 1.

So soakingswise the old and trusted top 10 may not be the best indicator. 

pmakovec at my ideal hot spring, I believe northern Sumatra:

Hot springs, naredijo še tako mrzlo reko v prav prijetno "mlakužo". Izbiraš lahko med večjim številom baxenčkov oz predelov vode z različno tempetaturo. V enem je voda tako vroča, nam je vodič skuhal jajca vanji.Hot springs with dofferent temperatre of wather is a nice spot to rest. Wather is so warm to cook a egg.

What to do? 

This new method has it's bias as well. 

To name a few: language plays a role, sample size, time of year sample is taken.

Maybe a better method would be to select contenders which have at least 50 instagram photo's and compare. 

But just 1 way of measuring might not be reliable enough. 

Does anyone have other suggestions? 

Let's try next year to include the soaking element, possibly exclude the commercial element.

Muang La (Northern Laos)  not on the tourist road but an excellent soaking opportunity. muanglalodge:

Muang La Lodge offers the tradition of bathing in the hot spring at the foot of our Lodge. From the moment we began construction, we preserved access for the villagers to the thermal spring. So today, it is not rare to share a bath with the local people who believe in the virtues of the waters and use them to help ease the stresses and strains of their day.#muanglalodge #muangla #northernlaos #lodge #hotspring #relax #tradition #discoverlaos #laos#amazinglaos #explorelaos #visitlaos #laostravel #explore #travel #travelasia #instatravel #picoftheday #instago#instatravel #travelingram #voyage @secretretreats

Getting air

TAKE EVERY chance. DROP EVERY fear! #enjoy #myparadise #jump #hotspring #lombok #Mountain #Rinjani

Source: esthermasuy

Here at the bureau of soaking affairs, we are seeing ever more interesting hot soaks from surprise, surpris, Indonesia. Not one or two, but many. So we thought that a one-off Indonesian special may be called for. If in need of a soak, just ask around for an air panas.

What's even more surprising is seeing how often the Rinjani mountain crater hot spring pops up. It's a long day long slog up here, so you won't see that many a tourist, but it seems that those that do make it up are relishing sharing their images of themselves or others soaking in the rusty colored hot springs with us, the general public. 

And hey, it does bring up envy to us stuck with our 9-to-5 jobs. Sigh!

Enjoy! 

After a day without shower. You can't get better than this. Hot spring under the cold weather!!! #steam #gopro #rinjani #hotspring #bikini

 Source: thamcinyee

Heading East

#hotspring #ketambe #aceh #Sumatra #indonesia

Source: alexgoestoofar 

Sumatra sees less tourism than the western islands of Java, Bali, Lombok and upcoming Flores. However geothermality here is commonplace, sometimes too upfront as volcanic activity is all too apparent just under many of Indonesia's islands.

Hot springs are less of attraction for tourists and are often just bathing places for local insiders.

Near the Gunung Leuser National Park, north Sumatra. Source 

Skipping the densely populated Java one arrives on the quintessential tourist destination of Bali, home to a couple of hot springs, some hardly known others a must stop on the round the island tour.

 

Batur Natural Hot Spring, Kintamani, Bali 

Source: stevencavell

 

Hot springs part2. Совсем волосы выгорели)) #bali #airpanas #balidreamsru #hotsprings #onelove 

Source: svetichelo

Swim swim #kintamani #hotspring #bali

Source: ariefandry

From Jean-Claude Winckler:

'at Belulang hot spring on Bali

' Sources d'eau chaude ~ Hot spring ~ Air panas [EXPLORE]

Découvertes par hasard, au cœur de fabuleuses rizières en terrasses, au bout d'une interminable piste à peine carrossable dans laquelle je me suis fourvoyé.

Surprise, il a fallu s’acquitter d'un droit d'entrée de 10 000 roupies pour moi et de 5 000 pour mon épouse! Et d'une redevance de parking de 2 000 rupiah.... J'ai tenté d'expliquer que mon visa de retraité me donnait les mêmes droits que les locaux, rien n'y a fait, j'ai du payer le tarif touriste étranger... (10000 roupies = 1 US$ = 0,80€) Je n'ai pas insisté, la retraite est une notion incompréhensible par les gens ici!

Les habitants des hameaux alentours viennent y faire leur toilette. Une dizaine de petits commerces sont installés autour des sources, ainsi que quelques temples...

#airpanas#espa#penebel#tabanan#refresh#tindakalit#

Source: letsuphyartini

And from Bali we head northeast to Sulawesi, another exciting destination yet to see an apparent upswing in tourism ...

by nurkitty:

#selfie #lombongo #airpanas

Then directly south is the island of Flores which has some nice hot springs.

#bajawa #hotspring #flores #indonesia #vsco

From the instagram account of dandagiacomo

Varm källa bland risfälten ️ #backpacking2014#indonesia#flores#moni#hotsprings#ricefields

Source: johannatunell

 

Soa Hot Springs. The perfect ending for a trek #hotsprings #soa #flores #indonesia #primoslejanos

Source:carlosfcarcoba

#socialsoakingsilently

Social media

Love it or not, social media is increasingly becoming a feature in our lives. 

And how about (social) soaking? 

Well, you are of course all familiar with the Facebook page of Soaking in Southeast Asia. Besides this there are many other hot spring Facebook pages, mostly dedicated to just the one soak. Particulary active are the U.S. Facebook pages of Cougar, Deep Creek and Pah Tempe. Beyond these though there's no much on offer, surely no regular original content. 

Certainly not in Southeast Asia. Or is there? (Note, there are many Japanese language hot spring pages ...).

Twitter? No idea.

Pinterest? What about this one, I Love Hot Springs? Personally, I don't get Pinterest ...

Soaking spirit, my alter ego on Tumblr, seems to be the globe's choice of tumblr soakers. There are though a few more solely dedicated to hot springs, but with very irregular postings ...

Instagram seems to receive quite a lot of photo's concerning nextgen soakers, just use the search function followed by #hotspring.

Surging ahead

Ongoing drama. The CS Monitor (Nov. 5, 2012) questions nuclear or geothermal for Japan. 

'Located nine miles southwest of Fukushima city, Tsu­chi­yu is launching a bold test in harnessing the potential of Japan's huge subterranean reserves of volcanic water.

By spring 2014, Tsuchiyu hopes to be generating 250 kilowatts of electricity – about a quarter of its total needs – at a new geothermal plant located on its outskirts'.

The Financial Times (Nov. 4, 2012) then has an article on the same theme, but concerning Indonesia. It notes many regulatory and technical shortcomings but remains upbeat:

'As the world’s most volcanically active country, Indonesia has been bestowed with unparalleled potential reserves of geothermal energy, which is renewable and produces almost no carbon emissions.

With the Indonesian government trying to fulfil surging energy demand while reducing carbon emissions, it is keen to accelerate the development of a raft of proposed geothermal power plants backed by local and international investors'. 

Though it highlights the dilemma between soaking and electricity generation in Japan, it neglects the issue in Indonesia. Is there no dilemma in Indonesia?

Apparently not, Japan's Sumitomo completes a 110 MW plant on Sumatra, Indonesia: 

'Located in the Ulubelu district, Tanggamus county in Lampumg Province at the southern tip of Indonesia’s Sumatra Island, the Ulubelu power station was built as the first large scale geothermal power generating facility on the island'.

Malaysia is developing it's first geothermal plant, to commence in two years. What the future entails: 

'In addition, to enable access to the project site and transport drilling rig, plant and equipments, an access road of approximately 18km in length, including 3 bridges, need to be constructed'. 

Soakers need not apply.

Meanwhile things are going so smooth on Leyte, Philippines: 

'Several groups have joined forces to oppose the sale of the unified Leyte geothermal plants on Leyte, Philippines. This is based on the fear of increasing electricity prices for the single most important power plant complex in the country'.

Just (or unjust?) politics then...

Create your own?

• Malaysia

A new find, Kampung Bongkek, Negiri Sembilan, Malaysia. From the New Strait Times (21 Oct., 2012): 

'The hot spring can still be seen today, right by the river bank and  with shrubs growing around it.

Basri said there were suggestions and efforts to develop the hot spring to attract more tourists to the village, in view of its history.

“However, the land belongs to someone who is not willing to give it up yet so we have no right to develop it”'.

Yea!

• Singapore

'Tekong Hot Spring'.

Singapore. From flickr member chia_alfred

• Indonesia

Another write up on Angseri hot springs, Bali, Indonesia. It adds this: 

'The natural attractions in Angseri Hot Spring used only as a traditional bathhouse. Starting from the strong desire of local communities to manage the hot water source and on the idea of ​​thinking Angsari six villagers in October 2007 where it was built and opened to the public a comfortable bathing area. Furthermore formed groups totaling 80 people and brought the name of the citizens Angseri Group Is Nature Angseri with legal forms CV'.

Another Angseri experience:

'Each cabin contained a stone bathtub, large enough to seat five people. A black-and-white checkered cloth covering the lower part of the bamboo walls allowed some privacy to soak in the invigorating, clear water that was hot enough to render my friend’s skin as red as a boiled prawn'. 

The same author also condures up the following on the hot springs of Tempuran, Wonosobo: 

'The first ponds weren’t exactly located in Wonosobo, but in a similarly blessed district on its west:  Banjarnegara. The hot springs were scattered in a neighborhood called Wanayasa, and together they form a bathing compound called Tempuran.

Please be warned that you shouldn’t go there at night, the way we foolishly did. We gambled with our lives when thick mist suddenly blanketed the hills and we had only about a five-meter field-of-view of the road, kind of like in the horror movie Silent Hill. All the while a deep gorge was on one side of the path we traveled on our motorbikes. My ex cried and begged to go home. But we soon forgot the terrifying time spent on the route from hell once we got to Tempuran.

...

Tempuran has different ponds for males and females, but the last two don’t. Women and little kids usually go there earlier than the men. To give you a heads up, most people bathe naked in all of these ponds'.

'A hot springs pond in Tempuran late at night. Cold and traumatized, we quickly jumped into it as soon as we arrived. Photo by Indra Nugroho'.

And steadying the nerves. Can anyone tell me why the need to smoke?

• Thailand 

Sometimes soaking news can be very special: 

'Occupiers of a row of rented apartments in Huay Yai Village, located on the southern outskirts of Pattaya [Thailand] reported the possible discovery of a geothermal hole situated at the front of one of the apartments on Wednesday afternoon.

Although highly unlikely, officials from the Pollution Control Department, the Department of Natural Resources & the Environment along with Huay Yai Municipal Officers led by the Mayor of Hua Yai made their way to the block of rooms to see for themselves the hole which had been created by locals to uncover the hot undersoil which was producing steam.

A thermometer recorded a temperature of 50C inside the hole and a demonstration involving a Chicken egg took place whereby it was cooked and ready to be consumed in under 20 minutes after being placed inside the hole. Checks were made and an explanation was given by officials who blamed poor installation of electrics and the rise in the water table due to recent rains. We were told that checks on the electrics installed in the rooms, which were constructed 4 years ago, indicated a leak of power into the ground which accounts for the occupiers unusually high electric bills which, up until now, could not be explained. As the water table rose it came into contact with the leaking electric causing the water to increase in temperature and evaporate which produced the steam and made the ground warm under-foot'. 

Can't believe it's true ...

Is there a post 21st?

What will the future look like?

'Tongjing Hot Spring Resort will start construction at the end of 2012, planned to be completed in March 2013, after which it will become a tourism highlight in Chongqing, the hot spring capital of the world, according to Chongqing Municipal Government on November 5, 2012.

Covering 342 mu with an investment of 1.28 billion yuan, the Resort is located in Tongjing Town, Yubei District, Chongqing. It will be built in accordance with the national 5A standard with a capacity of 1 million tourists. The hot spring center covers an area of 75 mu, including an indoor hot spring center and a outdoor park, able to hold 2,500 persons'. 

Hope not!